Blog: On Agencies
On Agencies
by laurie
UPDATED 11/12/07 based on comments below
Thanks to all, who contributed productively and respectfully, for the great discussion on my last post. Just as a quick update, I wanted to inform people of a few recent events. Namely, PLAN, and a few others agencies, have just announced they are no longer accepting new clients, and in light of the NOIDs that were just issued to PLAN today, I think that’s wise. Supposedly, the IAD will no longer be accepting dossiers for orphans out of Phu Tho or Thai Nguyen (this was according to Adoption Buzz’s rescinded post, but according to Ethica’s post on APV, only Phu Tho dossiers received after 11/05 will no longer be accepted). Although Tad’s most recent post was taken down, OO had also informed the adoption world that they will be pulling out of both these provinces as well. I don’t know that any agency really can claim they’re doing this ”voluntarily” anymore, if the IAD is in fact no longer accepting dossiers, but still, it’s better late than never, IMO. Additionally, if you haven’t read this family’s post regarding their FIRSTHAND experience with the agency ADOPPT, please visit the Desserich’s blog. It’s brave and probably ostracizing to speak out against disturbing agency practices you have seen. I commend them for doing that and suggest supporters of ethical adoptions head over and thank them as well.
Also, here’s is a little summary I pulled from William’s informative comment on Kelly’s blog about the provinces and agencies that work in them. I’ve checked the info and revised it as I see accurate. If there are additional corrections anyone sees necessary, please don’t hesitate to help me edit this to reflect accurate and up-to-date info:
PHU THO:
A.D.O.P.P.T Inc (NOID Issued)
Carolina Adoption Services (NOIDs Issued)(Temporarily closed)
Children’s Home Society and Family Services (CHSFS) (Temporarily
closed, HAS NEVER REFERRED OUT OF PHU THO)
Children’s House International
Orphans Overseas (past NOID)(RUMORED to be temporarily closed, although not reflected on their website as of 11/08/07)
Plan Loving Adoption Now (NOIDs issued)(Temporarily closed)
Small World Adoption Foundation of Missouri (Newly Licensed, no
referrals yet)
Vietnamese Orphans Relief Fund (VORF) - (withdrew from this region BEFORE the recent explosion of NOIDs, and prior to the Embassy’s warning about these provinces)
Wasatch International (Newly Licensed, no referrals yet)
THAI NGUYEN:
Orphans Overseas (past NOID)(rumored to be temporarily closed)
World Child International (NOIDs Issued)
There’s been a lot of talk on discussion boards, blogs, and other forums regarding what makes an agency unethical/ethical or what kinds of things should be legitimate red flags. There have been a few people who have very adamantly asserted that fast doesn’t equal unethical, just as slow does not equal ethical. I agree with the second half of that statement, but feel strongly that agencies who are still promising and delivering fast referrals of healthy baby girls should be red flagged. What’s considered fast? Well, depends on whom you ask. But I don’t think anyone could argue the timelines people from PLAN have experienced are lightening speed (see my last post).
Like most people, I have my own list of agencies I consider unethical. This post reflects MY OPINIONS. Rather than name those and lose my house to a lawsuit (come on people, I’d love to show you my balls, but I’m just not that stupid!), I’ll list my specific criteria for red flagging agencies, and you can figure it out from there. If you are looking to sign with an agency right now, I would suggest looking into these things and then RUN if ANY of them is a positive response for the agency in consideration. You should also read the archives on AAR to find answers to many of these questions. While I don’t think AAR is the end all beat all, and personally, I think Brendan’s list is a crock, I do think that listserve is one of the most valuable tools we PAP’s have in selecting an agency. Additionally, I am NOT claiming to be an expert or even that my own agency is the greatest out there. While we are happy thus far, have every reason to believe our current agency is ethical and most definitely legal, and trust that our facilitator is one of the best, I do wish they would take their ethics to the next step and stop allowing gender selection. Dillon is a great example of one such agency. I have learned from our last experience not to be a billboard for my agency, but if you have any questions, I’d be happy to share our experience and who we are using. Feel free to email me or drop a comment with your email address. Ok, so here are my red flags:
- Has this agency EVER lied about an employee working for/with them (usually applies to the “behind the scenes” facilitators, sometimes termed “consultant” or “family coordinator”)?
- Has this agency EVER received a NOID? I would not accept ”we’ve never had an adoption overturned” as a response, or “it was a provincial paperwork error.” Ask specifically about NOIDs, regardless of their outcome. Even a paperwork error means that agency was not on top of things the way it should have been - the buck HAS to stop at the agencies; they’re the only body we can hold accountable in all this. Also, there are at least 2 other agencies with previously issued NOIDs that are not reflected above because they were issued to families in other provinces and through other agencies (FHSA and Hawaii International come to mind)
- Does this agency work in Phu Tho and/or Thai Nguyen orphanages? Did they only pull out once the Embassy was already issuing NOIDs and had posted a public warning about working in either of those provinces?
- Has this agency referred out multiple sets of twins (identical or non-identical, either is a red flag)?
- Has this agency had a disproportionate number of babies test (+) for blood-born infections once arriving to the US, when their referral medicals stated a (-) status? This probably isn’t info you can get from the agency - you have to ask around and keep your eyes open.
- Does this agency umbrella or partner? See this link from VVAI for more details.
- Has this agency “lost” many referrals that had already been assigned to one of its families?
- Does this agency have an eerily defensive fan base who ostracizes those who share a negative agency experience publicly?
- Does this agency have a gag clause?
- Are there any reports of agency bullying or threatened lawsuits against PAP/AP’s who speak out against them?
- Do they give donations to hospitals in the nearby vicinity of the orphanages they work in?
- How long did it take for the agency to get their license?
- Do they pay unpublished cash fees(or ask their families to) to the o
rphanage in any way (donation or otherwise)? - Does every orphan referred have the exact same (or very slightly modified) abandonment story? This can be tough to know about an agency before you’ve completed an adoption through them and seen other families’ (usually your travel companions’) paperwork.
I know how hard it is to choose an agency. I truly do. Most people (us included, our first go-around) check the Embassy’s site for licensed agencies, and just choose from there. The problem is, Vietnam does the licensing of agencies even though all adoptions have to meet US laws to be considered legal and legitimate, and having a license by no means indicates an agency is ethical. It is the BARE minimum an agency needs to legally adopt from Vietnam. My own opinion is that the US and Vietnamese governments need to partner, so that they both have say in which agencies should get booted and which should be licensed. As it is now, all the US has the authority to do is issue NOIDs when they see illegal actions. Agencies should be losing their licenses, and I think a “1 strike (as in NOID), you’re on probation, and every case of yours gets investigated with extra scrutiny” rule is fair when considering what is at stake here. If the behavior continues and you are caught once more, you’re done in Vietnam for good. Again, this is all based on my own opinion. If my own agency were to screw up or act unethically, I’d want them held to the same standards. Again, remember this post is just about my red flags and things I think indicate UNETHICAL behavior. That doesn’t mean that if all 10 things above check out favorable, that automatically means an agency is ethical! It just means they aren’t blatantly unethical, by my standards. What I think makes an agency ethical, which was already laid out very well on VVAI, is a different topic altogether.
43 comments
My understanding is that you used FHSA to adopt your son, and you say they received a NOID in the past. If all agencies that have received NOIDs (no matter when or why) are ethically suspect, can we infer that you consider your son’s adoption to have been the result of unethical practices?
Actually it looks like Jackson’s picture is posted on the FHSA site in their Vietnam welcome home section.
http://www.flhomestudies.com/vietnamhome.html
A few years ago I used them too much to my distress, and four months living in the third world with a child you can’t bring home is a whole lot of distress. Years later I am still sorting things out.
He is also the main photo on the page promoting their Vietnam program.
http://www.flhomestudies.com/vietnam.html
Yes, Jackson is the FHSA poster boy at the moment. We had a great experience with the VN program coordinator, and didn’t know to be worried about larger agency ethics before traveling. The NOID was issued to another family (not in our travel group) after our G&R, while we were in VN.
After speaking to Ms. Russell during our CIS interview, we learned our case was under additional scrutiny because of that. All our paperwork checked out. However, because we question the ethics of that agency, we have spent months agonizing over our participation in FHSA’s program and have worried our son will have questions and concerns as he gets older, as we do. Hence, we have sought a PI to assist us and plan to continue investigating his history to gather as much info as possible for him.
That said, Ann, none of the specifics of his case, or my family, is any of your business. BUT, I have taken this strong stance on ethics and been very outspoken about our past experience in the hopes of preventing others and, more importantly, their children, from feeling the same worry and agony that we have experienced. I could vehemently defend FHSA in the face of very obvious red flags, but instead I choose to educate others who are looking for information - information that would have helped us in the decision making process.
Ann,
Laurie has been very brave in sharing her experience about FHSA. There are APs who may not publically post details that they share privately when people ask for information on the various lists. Sadly, there are also many PAPs who choose to ignore even the first hand experience of APs and work with suspect agencies.
Laurie has done as much as possible to encourage other PAPs to choose ethical agencies so that they do not have to live with the uncertainty that she has. I wish that every AP would be as honest about their experience with their agencies as she has, and then perhaps we wouldn’t be facing the current mess. There are families home with their children with other agencies who witnessed illegal and unethical behaviour but do not take the same steps Laurie has to learn from the past and make better choices in the future, and encourage others to do the same.
Additionally, if you feel compelled to post (and this isn’t directed only at you Ann, but many other posters on various blogs) then you should have your name link to your blog. You are practically anon. without doing so, which I find dishonest. This is obviously not directed at those who don’t have blogs.
I don’t have a blog, which is why I didn’t leave a blog address. I was just asking them a question, as politely as I possibly could. People’s opinions are always shaped in part by their own experiences, and I’m trying to weigh how their own experiences might have influenced what they are saying. Unfortunately, I don’t have time to spend hours trying to sort through various past blog postings to piece together their story. All I asked was a simple question, and I thank Laurie for her response.
Ann, you know, I realized after I posted that you may have been asking sincerely. Sorry to have come across as bitchy. I also need to remember that a lot of the people posting or reading are new to this process. I am frustrated that so few APs look back critically at their own adoption experience and speak up as Laurie and Tracy Desserich and a few others have, and that when they do so many PAPs don’t listen. It wasn’t fair of me to take it out on you. I am sorry.
Well now I feel like others who see their agency on the screen and no way could they have done anything wrong!!!!
We used CAS - I know for a fact that they have not taken anymore new families for VN adoption for months now - maybe since June. I don’t know what happened with any NOIDS - I would love more info.
I do know they were great and very honest with us - the facilitators in VN were wonderful.
I guess you don’t really know - but I felt like things were good - we did adopt from DaNang.
Heather
Just to update on one point, Laurie, CHSFS has not ever issued referrals out of Phu Tho that I know of. In fact I was told that both VORF and CHSFS had opportunity to issue referrals but passed them up do to possible ethics concerns within the orphanages/province.
I would like to know where William is getting his info from - it must be a good source for you to post it.
Heather
This was also taken from Kelly’s blog -
Yippee said…
Since someone asked, here are just some information (Please double check with Google to have the exact latest number).
There are 43 licensed agencies in the VN adoption program. There are 40 to 100 provinces. Each province has many orphanage.
There have been between 10 to 20 NOIDs issued in the last 3 months.
All of these were issued to the provinces mentioned at
http://hanoi.usembassy.gov/adoptionstatement1107.html
which are Phu Tho, Thai Nguyen and one near-by province.
The agencies that got 90% of these NOIDs are PLAN and WORLD-CHILD. It is possible that 1 of the 2 other agencies that have placed at least one child from these provinces have also received NOIDs in the last few months (these 2 agencies are Orphans-Overseas and A.D.O.P.P.T. ). It would be unfair to Orphans-Overseas and ADOPPT to say for certain they have receive one or more NOIDs recently without proof but since they work in these 2 provinces, it’s very likely.
PLAN and WORLD-CHILD have the fastest average time-line, and the most number of infant (
Today CAS issued a letter to its current PAP’s in its Vietnam program. They are/have received two noids now. I know this because we are with CAS right now (currently we are waiting on 171h). Both NOIDs were from Pho Tho, and yes we are discussing our options.
I absolutely do not give any praise to the agencies for “withdrawing” from these provinces. If they were working these provinces and there was enough going on to warrant investigations and NOIDS these agencies certainly should have seen some red flags and pulled out long ago. They are simply being forced to close their doors. No applause from me.
Also, according to Linh Song & Ethica (via APV) the DIA is not accepting referrals given after 11/5 from Phu Tho. Apparently they are still accepting them from Thai Nguyen.
Oh, just wanted to add that Laurie, I also commend you for speaking honestly about your FHSA experience. We used them to adopt from Cambodia, although that was a whole other can of worms as the entire country shut down and it’s hard to say who was responsible for what at that time. (The VN coordinator was also the Cam coordinator and I agree she is fantastic to work with.)
Carissa - I am sorry to hear that - I would love to know what happened with that. I thought CAS was really good and we felt good about our adoption and the things that happened. I hope all goes well for you and whatever you decide.
Heather
Heather - this is CAS offical statement to the current PAP’s: “The concerns raised in our two cases were related to an error made by the orphanage staff in logging of the child’s arrival.” But I am not clear what that means. They also say “We will not tolerate any illegal activity or unethical practice in our adoptions. We will not work with any individual or orphanage that continues to break procedure or participate in illegal practices.” (This is not all of the letter but a small posrtion of it.) Also, my understanding from that letter is that 20 NOIDS have now been or will shortly be issued, that is also from the CAS letter. To those concerned I may be defending CAS, read my blog in its entirity, I have never been their biggest cheerleader and I have had issues along the way, I am truely not sure what we will do now. I just want to show where I got my facts.
Heather,
Not trying to defend Plan, but if I have my numbers correct they have been issued 3 NOIDs (yes, 3 too many). that is 15% of 20 NOIDs so I fail to see how they have 90% of the Noids.
Laurie, an honest heart felt question. In your list #5 was about blood born diseases as being a red flag. I am assuming that you mean things like Heb B, C or HIV, etc. Is this correct? How do you see this as a red flag? Just trying to understand.
Thanks
Good question GCS - I didn’t explain that well at all. Those are the specific diseases I’m referring to, although really any medical condition known to the orphanage staff and/or agency, but undisclosed to the PAPs at the time of referral or the time the condition is discovered, is a HUGE issue to me. The thing is, the likelihood of having any of the aforementioned diseases, but having a falsely negative test is low. Hence, the logical medical explanation is that these kids’ medicals were fabricated - either forged to say negative when the test results were positive or they were never actually tested at all (to cut costs). The direct party responsible would be the agency, since it is their duty to ensure medicals are done and true results reported.
This is not always how it happens. At some orphanages I have heard of the awful practice of mass vaccinating with the same dirty syringe used for each kid. This is something that agency staff need to know about and pay attention to. And they should be able to if their represented agency is involved and referring babies from those orphanages. Agencies provide humanitarian aid and all sorts of funding, and they really need to start focusing on things like public health too.
Although I’d never share info about the families who have entrusted me with their kids’ medical illnesses, I do know of cases where medical records were obscured or forged, and that is OBVIOUSLY unethical on the agency’s part!
If anyone else has anything to add, feel free.
And thanks for the update according to Ethica with regards to the IAD/DIA no longer accepting dossier for Phu Tho, with no mention of Thai Nguyen. My info had come from Tad’s original post that he has since taken down.
Can someone tell me how you find out which agencies have been issued NOIDS?
As I have said (somewhere, I can’t remeber now where) but when we were adopting our daughter we had a friend who went through some of the same events that are happening now (he was one floor below us in the hotel). He ended up handing the babies (yes 2) back. It broke my heart. We really did not know each other that well at the time and we all just cried together. It still brings tears to my eyes. I woke up this morning feeling very blessed to have my girls (one born in China and the other Vietnam).
Heather
Laurie-
If I may, I would add a couple more “red flag” questions
1. Do they give “hospital donations” to hospitals in the nearby vicinity of the orphanages they work in?
2. How long did it take for the agency to get their lisence?
3. Do they pay unpublished cash fees(or ask their families to) to the orphanage in any way (donation or otherwise)?
Can I add one?
How does your agency treat clients when things go wrong? When families try to call from Vietnam because something is not right?
As usual, Laurie, a great post. Gee, I see some of those red flags now - I read them to my husband and he literally laughed out loud when I read “Does this agency have an eerily defensive fan base who ostracizes those who share a negative agency experience publicly?” Hits a little close to home for us lately! Thanks for posting these (for warning PAPs and for giving us a chuckle).
I don’t think anyone truly knows how or why a child tests positive for a disease such as Hepatitis B. I am the parent of such a child and I have spoken with MANY other parents of these children. If we-as the parents-who have spoken with agencies and know our children’s medical history do not know why they are positive, I don’t know how you could know this information. Not that it matters (my child will be positive regardless of how it happened and we have moved on from trying to place blame with anyone), but I do not believe my agency was aware of this situation. Please do not use this as a weapon in your war against PLAN, ADOPPT, WORLD CHILD or any other agency. It is painful enough as a parent to know your child is living with this disease without it being used as a pawn in this ugly battle.
I do know of several agencies that have had children come back positive (they have either revealed this information when I asked or I have been told by other parents of positive children). I do know that VORF is one of those agencies that has had at least one child come back positive for Hepatitis B after being negative at referral.
I have started an advocacy program to vaccinate the orphans of Vietnam and I can tell you that VERY few agencies took the time to write me back when I submitted a plan to them. VORF was one that never wrote me back and several others wrote to either say they would not participate in such a program because of cost (the vaccine itself would only cost $10 for the series) or to tell me why the caregivers of Vietnam are basically too stupid for this ever to work-I would cross ANY agency off my ETHICAL list that knowingly has had children come home positive and has done nothing to help prevent it in future children. It’s a long difficult process I know, but these agencies are not even trying to remidy this situation.
It is a very sad situation and the ONLY agency that has done anything to help has been PLAN. I am sure this is on the back burner at this time, but they have gone above and beyond trying to help get this program implemented. I find it very sad that all the other “ethical” agencies basically ignore this problem (one child being positive for this disease is too many since it is preventable). The only agency that currently vaccinates (as far as I could tell- not all responded to my questions) was HOLT. I do know of several agencies that have had HBV children come home and they were not interested in a program to help prevent this disease.
Again, please do not use this issue against any agency (especially since your own agency is involved). It is a very sad situation for those that are INVOLVED and IMO we do not need our situation exploited by anyone who is not personally dealing with situation.
Thank you
HBVadvocate.com
P.S., I do post annon on this subject since I do not want my child to be the poster child for Hepatitis, you do know who I am and I would appreciate you not exploiting my situation or my child by revealing my identity. I have revealed myself to many people, but I want to be the one who decides who knows of my childs status-the adoption community is VERY small and there are several people I know in real life that do not know of my childs status by my choice-they all vaccinate their children, so my child is not a risk to their children.
Correction: my first sentance does not make much sense. I mean to say we will never know what happened, why the children are positive after testing negative.
The most logical answer (which you as a doctor should have known and pointed out) would be they were exposed AFTER being tested initially. Again, who knows if they were exposed with a dirty needle during their inital test, if they were vaccinated with a dirty needle, if they were exposed to the virus during an illness/hospitalization or if they were exposed by a positive caregiver who cared for an open wound and did not use universal precautions.
Just because a child is positive, it does not mean documents were falsified or that your agency was aware of the situation. Sure, that may sadly be the case, but it is not the first nor the only explanation.
Sorry to post 2 times…Just had to say that.
Tracy X,
WHOA! First, your pain and anger come through so loudly and clearly, and I would like to say I am so sorry for all you’ve been through. It is remarkable that you have turned your experience into positive initiatives. In all your advocacy work, I hope you are able to see that no other child, and no PAP, should be at the other end of such heartache, especially since we are talking about a preventable disease. That said, I feel compelled to note the trends, be it the orphanages/provinces that agencies work in, or the agencies themselves that are the cause for these disturbing and disproportionate increases in prevalence.
I am sorry you felt “exploited” by my inclusion of #5. This is not about you. It was not personal to your case or specific to your agency. In fact, MANY people have shared their medical stories with me and I KNOW of more than 1 instance where medical records were actually FALSIFIED, OBSCURED, or “mis-translated” to hide a KNOWN medical condition that the PAPs discovered upon CIS or State Dept. interviews. I was not speculating. I hope we agree that is unethical. Notice that you made an assumption, but I did not name that agency, nor will I share anymore than that of those families’ stories.
As for the VORF case you mentioned…I am sure that family would not appreciate being “outed” by you in the comments section of my blog. You’re right, this is a very small community! But yes, I am aware that agency has had 1 case of a negative status that was actually a positive. And again, I am very glad that VORF withdrew from that region months and months ago.
Unlike a NOID, this is something that could happen to any of us - our child, who we thought was healthy, could turn out to have a medical condition. It’s the reality of adoption. I just feel it’s relevant as a red flag when certain agencies have this happen more often than others.
And to respond to your comment: as a doctor I should have known and pointed out the most logical explanation for kids testing negative when they are, in fact, positive…I addressed this already in an above comment. In case I was unclear, or you did not understand what I wrote, I will reiterate there are 3 plausible explanations that I see:
1. The children are reportedly negative when they are never actually tested.
2. The children test positive, but records falsified and are reported to be negative.
3. Testing negative PRIOR to exposure, and subsequently converting to positive status. The most likely mechanism here is that health workers visiting the orphanage to vaccinate perhaps did not practice universal precautions, and dirty needles can transmit blood-borne infections.
I KNOW that #2 occurs or has occurred, and, as mentioned in #3, I know the health workers in some orphanages do vaccinate with dirty needles, so #3 is very possible as well. #1 is also quite logical when you consider all the “skimming off the top” done in Vietnam adoptions. Everyone wants to make an extra buck and it wouldn’t be the least bit surprising to me if these diseases are never even tested for in some places.
I hope that clears things up. I would never reveal your identity, and am sorry you feel so “exploited” and persecuted. This really was not about you or your child. I wish you the best of luck with your advocacy endeavors and am sorry to hear some agencies have been so unsupportive. I do think you are advocating for a very important cause, as I feel I am too.
Were do your facts come from?
Sorry. I meant where.
Thanks
Mine is one of the families that Laurie is referring to. I do not often talk about this subject since it is a very difficult thing for us to come to terms with and we’re still trying to figure it all out. We used FHSA. We were referred and adopted “twins” from Vung Tau. We received mistranslated medical records. Since FHSA was also who did our home study and is doing our post placement reports, they know that we are pretty miffed about these facts and the social worker who did our post placement (a newbie) was pretty horrified to learn of our experience. Our original FHSA social worker, who we really liked, mysteriously quit very shortly after we called her to came out to visit us with the boys due to some attachment concerns we were having.
I know you want them so here are our specifics:
TWINS - You can check out our site to see pictures of our boys. We love them to pieces and wouldn’t trade them for the world. Whether they are genetically related or not…
MISTRANSLATED MEDICALS - We were told of the “twins” by Bonnie (FHSA’s VN program coordinator) in October. We received our referral picture and initial medical report in November but Bonnie told us the medical information was so incomplete that this was not our official referral - we needed a better medical report. We received a more comprehensive medical report from a different facility in December and accepted the twins’ referral on December 14th. We left for Vietnam January 27th and received all of our paperwork on February 12th just before leaving Vietnam on the 13th. Upon receiving that packet, I finally learned why the doctors in Vietnam thought the boys had Hepatitis B while both medical reports I had showed that they were negative. That first “incomplete” medical report was originally completed by a French hospital and was in French. I had a version that had been translated into English. The French reports clearly showed they both had positive test results for Hepatitis B. The English versions showed they were negative. Apparently the second medical was not part of the boys’ dossier since the VN doctor wanted to make sure I knew the boys had Hepatitis B. Can I just tell you how nerve-wracking it is to be in a third world country as new parents of children who practically hate you trying to deal with the fact that these little guys may have a deadly disease? It was horrible. In addition to that, I was even more scared by another problem little Cameron had. The VN doctor in HCMC told us that if his condition flared up to seek immediate medical attention and to have him treated as soon as we got home. Well, it did flare up while we were in Hanoi. We took him to the French hospital there and they wanted to admit him on the spot but we were scheduled to fly home in just a few days. SO, on top of FHSA falsifying our documents and us stressing out that our children may have a potentially deadly disease, we were in Hanoi hoping our baby doesn’t DIE before we can get into a hospital in the states. LITERALLY, THESE WERE THE WORST DAYS OF OUR LIVES!!! Our ending is a great one though - neither Cameron nor Connor have Hepatitis A, B or C. They have endured several blood tests here to make sure they don’t have anything. Furthermore, once we got home and got them into the doctor, Cameron’s condition was not life-threatening although he did have to go through one minor surgery. He is not expected to have any further problems from his condition. And, as an extra bonus, it appears that every shot on their vacination records was legitimate and we did not have to repeat any of them. The silver lining on our once very dark cloud.
Erin, thank you SO much for sharing here! I was sort of surprised to get responses of people just not believing that this could be done by any agency, or assuming I was “attacking” their agency without basis, when in reality, I was speaking specifically of an agency with which we had direct experience. Your boys are the cutest pair in the world, twins or not, but I absolutely understand you feeling deceived - about that as well as the medicals! I’ll never forget those emails when you were in-country and I was WAY more scared than I led on when Cameron was sick. Thank God for the outcomes in every regard (the Hep+ status likely reflecting only maternal antibodies, the possible “artificial twinning” working out so well, and Cameron’s surgery going so smoothly), but it was no thanks to the agency.
Sorry, I am still not clear. If you want to take a strong stance on ethics, and you have questions about the ethics of the agency you used, why are you allowing an agency like FHSA to use a picture of your baby to promote their Vietnam program to PAP’s?
You know and it can be easily checked on the AAR; they have had NOIDS a few months ago, the facilitator they used and may still be using is the notorious My Linh Soland, many families have reported major problems in the last five years in several of their programs, many people who have not reported problems on the AAR (Adoption Agency Research List) have posted their stories I have only read for the first time today on your blog. Are you reasoning that because you did not have a problem with them it is OK?
map–
Laurie has been diligent about informing PAPs about FHSA. Perhaps you should search the archives at AAR again, and also remember that a lot of sharing of agency information is done privately. How you can come to the conclusion that she would or has condoned the agency’s behaviour is beyond me.
I wanted to add that although CHSFS has been licensed in Phu Tho since March 2006, they have never issued a referral from there. When we brought our then 2year old son home in Nov 2006, I asked them about Phu Tho, and in country agency staff told me that CHSFS would not be referring from Phu Tho at this time (or in near future) because of serious concerns about dealings in that province.
So, I’m a little miffed about Tracy X pointing fingers with regards to the Hep B case from VORF. Why? Because yes, this is a small community and it is not all that difficult to “connect the dots” sometimes. With that said,
Tracy X, I don’t think it helps your cause to mention other families situations in the comments of Laurie’s blog. If we someday find ourselves in this very situation, I will find it very difficult to trust that the information I share with you, won’t come back to haunt me. If you are not the family from VORF with the + HepB, I don’t think you should be talking about the case at all. Share your own experiences, not someone elses.
Our initial Hep B test once we were back in the states showed that there was an exposure to Hep B. I was shocked and very upset. The test results for the medical review upon referral were negative. However, upon further testing, we discovered the Hep B had been cleared from the system and there is now a natural immunity. Laurie, is it accurate to assume our child was given a vaccination at birth and that is how it was cleared? Would you consider the medical review fraudulent or does a positve/negative depend on the type of testing done?
Jen,
I can’t find a personal e-mail for you or I would have written you directly. I have written to Laurie regarding this situation and my response was not posted (which is fine). That information came from VORF, not a parent. Several agencies voluntarily gave me information on how many children had come home positive when I contacted them by phone or e-mail (VORF told me by phone). I did not (because I do not know) mention the name, sex, age or province of the child. So I am not now nor have I ever “outed” a parent or child.
Map,
not sure what you’re problem with me is. If you must know, we signed a waiver when we first signed up with FHSA that they could use our baby’s picture for their marketing purposes. I was flattered at the thought my kid’s photo would ever appear anywhere - that was before I knew anything about them or ethics in VN adoptions! It’s really not a big deal to me at all that they still use him, and the reason is because people read my blog, then look for agencies and recognize him on FHSA’s mainpage, then they email me saying “I saw your son’s picture on their page, can I ask you about your experience.” See, FHSA would never list me as a reference because I’ve been upfront with Bonnie about our concerns - that they use My Linh Soland as a facilitator (or “consultant”)! So it’s an avenue for me to reach PAPs choosing an agency and share with them all we know about FHSA.
I have been VERY outspoken about what I know and have responded to every person I’ve found on AAR who has inquired. Usually I do it privately, but, upon return home from VN, I had also submitted a VERY strong post that’s in their archives that I published anonymously (because at the time we were still trying to work with Bonnie on getting additional birth info about Jackson). If you’re done attacking, I will say 1 last time, I have NEVER said that because our case checked out with CIS it means everything with that agency is ok by me!!
Different Heather - thanks for the update on CHFS. Nicki pointed out the same thing and I find that to be VERY respectable, especially since they figured out there was something amiss in that province that long ago!
Nicole - it depends on the specific results (which tests were positive, antibodies or antigens, and which were negative). My lawyer father has advised me to stop giving medical advice through my blog - hahaha. There are a few possibilities here though. And yes, one of them is that the referral medical was fraudulent. If he/she was vaccinated, you can tell that by the test results. Look for a anti-HBs Antibody being positive with the anti-HBc Antibody being negative if your child only received the vaccine and was never exposed to the virus otherwise. Feel free to email with specifics if you want to get into more depth about this - it’s confusing so I won’t delve here!
Map,
I would also like to point out that our twins are also on FHSA’s site for the very reason that Laurie gave. We signed the waiver prior to finishing the process. BUT it is also why they only have their referal picture. We have intentionally not sent them an updated photo as they requested. However, as I look at the other babies on their site, I know the stories with so many of them and know those parents shared similar experiences. FHSA may know the parents aren’t all too thrilled with them but they like having all those precious photos to show of all their “success” stories.
I would also like to address your comment about not hearing the story from the AAR site. Well, I did send a very detailed account of our experience with FHSA to Brendan. It was intended for his eyes only but was mistakenly sent to the entire list serve. I am guessing you were not on that board at that time or my story would be old news to you too. I requested that those who received the post in error please not share it since it was intended to be solely for Brendan since I appreciate his efforts of keeping tabs on what is happening in the VN adoptions and have only posted here to support Laurie’s efforts now. I have not reported all that I know here since I really don’t feel like inviting repercussions from FHSA.
i am freaking out. 303-642-0710
Erin when you asked Mike to remove it he did right away. Very few people ever saw it unless they have AAR posted to their email. As AAR can post a few hundred a day I would guess very few members have it set to email.
Brendan is a vault, what goes to Brendan stays with Brendan. He & Jeffery can give you access to a hard to find public documents, such as foreign press reports, transcripts, gov documents, cashed pages, or links, but never a private one.
I’ve been reading your blog for the past couple weeks, is your password-protected posts only for family and close friends or is it possible that you can send me the password.
For the record, CAS has never received any referrals from Pho Thu.
Oops. Meant to say that CAS has never received any referrals (and therefore any NOIDs) from Phu Tho.
I seem to recall that you adopted your second son from Quang Nam. Now that QN is a blocked province (in which investigations cannot proceed, because VN authorities are allegedly blocking the US investigators from doing their field work), would you finally agree that pre-NOIDs (and undoubtedly some NOIDs) can happen with any agency? Or would you consider that the agency that you used for your second adoption may be corrupt?